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Sexism discussion is in the air! 
5th-Jul-2012 08:30 pm
Fighting Genesis of Vengeance
Is it just me or is the discussion of sexism in the air? No, seriously. It's becoming an increasingly common topic with each passing day. I just keep bumping into discussion of it. Shoot, two people got fired from their jobs due to comments of varying sexist-ality on Twitter!

I THINK I found the root of most of this: Tropes vs Women in Videogames.

Basically there's a YouTube channel called Feminist Frequency that did a series called Tropes vs Women and now wants to do a videogame based series. Problem was, she used Kickstarter to earn money and earned a ridiculous amount and well...that caused backlash.

And now everyone can't stop talking about sexism in videogames!

This is actually a subject that's very important to me. See, as a kid, me and my older sister were always allowed to rent one thing each. I'd get a game and my sister would get an anime But I realized if I could find a game with a female character, I could get TWO new games to play that week! So I became VERY well acquainted with the girls of the 16-bit era...of which there were quite a few. They're a HUGE part of my childhood! So...you know...being told that they don't matter or having them be completely ignored is kind of a THING to me.

Well I figured I'd throw my hat into the ring and try to write an article on it and I watched TONS and TONS of videos and read a bunch of articles on Sexism, Feminism, all sorts of shit with peoplke varying from Feminists, to ranting crazy people, to just...fucking EVERYONE. Every damn opinion I could get. It made me fucking dizzy!

Well I learned one very important thing: I am COMPLETELY unqualified to talk about sexism (250 hours in Rumble Roses XX, 60 hours in DOAX, another 60 in DOAX2, Gal*Gun on both 360 and PS3 with DLC, and the only positive reviews of Oneechanbara and Blades of Time on the internet, also just beat Oneechanbara Z Kagura). Not EVEN gonna try! ...and yet WOW do I have opinions...ON the opinions!

I've spent the past few weeks TRYING to solidify this into a coherent article for the blog but it just isn't working. This shit is INSANT FLAMEWAR BAIT and is a VERY touchy and complex subject that brings up VERY PERSONAL and incredibly varied opinions so I need to tread carefully in a more public context. However, I just now realized that the LJ is a good place to just let it out. Throw what I have at a wall and see what people say...mostly Baines.

First of all, to any Feminists out there, PRAISE SOMETHING! Find SOME kind of positive example! ANYTHING! Seriously, almost all I can find is complaints and indeed there's plenty to complain about, but that's ALL I can find! When all you do is complain, it doesn't give developers much to work with. ESPECIALLY because all the complaints run together and give the impression that you're utterly unpleaseable! At this point it seems what they want is a Female character who is clearly female but isn't sexualized and is strong without resorting to violence while simultaneously being equal to the men but NOT being the same as the men as that would just make her a man with boobs, she has to act feminine without falling into a female gender role but she can't fall into a male gender role either and...you DO all realize that's completely impossible, right?

That's the big thing I realized. You can't please everybody, you can't please a group, and Feminists are a GROUP of people. Like any group, each and every one of them has their own tastes and opinions and as such you can't please 'em all. I know some women have no problems with a character being sexy as long as she's competent and a well developed interesting character, while other have their problems ENTIRELY with the characters being too sexy or with them using violence. Meanwhile others still WANT their characters to be insanely sexy and use their sexuality as a weapon!

Anyone remember when Bayonetta was being called the best female character in videogames...or THE ONLY FEMALE CHARACTER IN VIDEOGAMES as that dipshit MovieBob/Game Overthinker once said. (Oh yeah, I'm STILL mad!)

On a similar token, men need to shut up about sexism in videogames. Seriously, someone was pointing to the "hundreds" or articles on the subject and they were all written by men. The issue here is that men take things too far and major publications sensationalize things. I mean seriously, anyone that brings up Custer's Revenge in discussion is an idiot. That game was never relevant, no one liked it, no one got off to it. It's an ancient curiosity that existed entirely as a gimmick. The issue is that since men aren't offended by any of this REALLY, they exaggerate shit and go too far and don't know what the boundaries of "acceptable" and "unacceptable" are and the result is that they add to the feeling that feminists just CAN'T be pleased!

My point is, say SOMETHING positive. Even if it has negative shit with it. I read some articles about how pro-feminist Sailor Moon is and about the positive aspects of the Disney Princesses. They still complained about the outfits or certain things about the Disney movies, but rhey still praised SOMETHING! Saying "This character would be great is she just wore a sweater" is FAR more productive and less irritating than "All female videogame characters are awful, here's why!".

Know what's really funny? I know a girl that LOVES the Hyperdimension Neptunia series. The games currently being held up as THE MOST HORRIBLE MISOGYNIST GAMES ON THE MARKET!!! And this girl likes them. She's even teamed up with another girl to make a Left 4 Dead mod that puts the characters into the game. Why? Why does she like the game? Because the characters are cute and the writing is funny.

Yeah, I ain't gonna call those games the best representation of women or anything, what with how they exploit their characters sometimes. Lots of tentacles and lesbians and whatnot. But at the same time, everyone complaining about them is doing it at face value. They see scantily clad underaged girls and immidiately begin calling foul without knowing what's actually inside.

Similarly, I doubt anyone will complain about Blades of Time because Ayumi is a FUCKING IDIOT and a TERRIBLE CHARACTER but rather because of her skimpy attire and her "infantilizing" pigtails.

...and if I hear ONE MORE PERSON bring up Lollipop Chainsaw as being so horribly sexist I'm gonna punch them in the jaw.

And NO ONE is gonna mention Ar Tonelico 1, the ONE GAME that I found to be horrifyingly offensive and sexist. The game that made ME, Mr.250 Hours of Rumble Roses, uncomfortable.

Know what's even better? No one is gonna bring up WET in this discussion. Ever.

But yeah, so I've been working of an episode on pre-Croft game heroines and started making a list and...WOW! There's a LOT of female videogame characters! Like, this list doesn't even count RPGs and Fighters, which almost universally have a number of female characters. I'm JUST looking at games with female leads and there's a LOT! ...weirdly there was an EXPLOSION of them in 1985. Like...that's the starting point. It was Ms.Pac-Man then Girl's Garden then BAM! 1985! Baraduke, Flash Gal, Wonder Momo, Ninja Princess, Typhoon Gal, Time Gal...1985 was the fucking YEAR of the Gals! Kinda crazy!

It's at THAT point you realize...there's actually a shockingly large amount of female characters in videogames! There ALWAYS has been since the mid-80s! I mean I'd probably say something like 1 in every 5 playable videogame characters are female! Sure it's not the over 50% of the actual real world population but that's pretty darn good for a male dominated medium like this.

The problem is, NO ONE knows about them! For some reason it seems ALL games with female characters are destined for obscurity even when they're really good! Alisia Dragoon has ALWAYS garnered much praise and yet it's NEVER brought up in discussion! What about El Viento? Or the Valis series? Positive OR negative, no one ever brings them up! Shoot, even today with WET this continues! Who brings up WET in discussion like...ever? It's fucking madness!

So...in a weird twist...as unqualified as I am to talk about sexism in videogames, everyone else is unqualified to talk about women in videogames! THEY DON'T KNOW ANY!

So, really, I have one question on my mind. One question that is bothering the fuck out of me. Is this sexist:

Seriously. Is Alisia Dragoon a decent representation of women in videogames? Or is the outfit too skimpy? Or is the game too violent? Or is there not enough dialogue to give the character a personality? Is she just a "man with boobs"?

I think each person will give me a different response.

Also, can I just say that I am HORRIBLY offended by the growing frequency of the term "man with boobs"? The idea being that if a female character doesn't do something that makes her distinctly feminine, she's just a model swapped dude? Because, really, you're telling me that making a female character that is COMPLETELY EQUAL TO HER MALE COUNTERPARTS IN EVERY WAY is somehow sexist?! What's more that she doesn't even COUNT as a female character?! Fuck you. No, really, fuck you.

Also, it needs to be said, the backlash against the new Tomb Raider amuses me. See, I find it fascinating and perhaps even disturbing that 3 of the most boob-tastic game series have tried to tone it down: Soul Calibur, DOA, and Tomb Raider. But each one is utterly botching it! SCV is getting shit because while it ditched the busty older cast, they've been replaced by their daughters while the men get to keep aging. DOA is just plain sending mixed messages. But Tomb Raider?! Oh lord...

See, I want you to find the Extra Credit episode on Female Videogame Characters. Watch it. That episode is fucking ridiculous. It gives such stringent and explicit instructions on how EXACTLY to do a good female character and nothing else will suffice. Now look at the new Tomb Raider. My VERY FIRST THOUGHT when I saw that game was that they were trying to follow that Extra Credit episode TO THE LETTER...which is awkward. Rebooting fucking Tomb Raider to make Lara Croft into a less sexualized and strong female videogame character? Umm...okay. A bit awkward but okay. Then the newest trailer hits and thanks to a near rape scene EVERYONE seems to now be calling it even MORE sexist and that opinion has colored their perception of the entire rest of the game! It's HILARIOUS! The game tried SO HARD to make Lara Croft into that perfect female videogame character and all they got for their troubles is wanton backlash and hate!

I'm not saying the new Tomb Raider isn't the next Other M. I'm just saying that what they were TRYING to do and the result are kind of hilarious...and a damn shame. It's shit like this that prevents us from having the original female lead in Black Lotus/True Crime: Hong Kong/Sleeping Dogs. I'm starting to wonder if all this hair splitting about female characters won't get to the point where people just say "You know what, it's not fucking worth it" and results in LESS female videogame characters.

...and don't try to tell me "But sex sells". In videogames, it doesn't. Not always. Many people actively avoid games that are explicitly sexy under the opinion that if a game is sexy then it must not have good gameplay. So...yeah...

There you go. You may now proceed to have a flamewar and tear me a new asshole. Me? I've gotta figure out how a game where HOMING LIGHTNING is your regular attack can be SO FUCKING HARD!
6th-Jul-2012 06:49 am (UTC)
I like my plate and mail bikinis, and I think some women need to lighten up.
6th-Jul-2012 09:51 pm (UTC)
Is she just a "man with boobs"?

She's definitely not that. I'm imagining a male game character wearing THAT outfit and standing in THAT pose and it's f-ing hilarious.
6th-Jul-2012 10:22 pm (UTC)
I also feel that people need to spend more time focusing on the positive and less on the negatives. Sexism against males is only really addressed when it comes to hyper steroid abusing space marines; no one ever really seems to care about the games that portray males as gay strippers with swords (oh I'm sorry, how else was I supposed to interpret Dagran's clothing in The Last Story?).

If all of the complaining means driving storylines and character designs in new directions then I'm kind of ok with it (I like new stuff), but people need to identify what they like, too. Being super negative doesn't really result in a whole lot of goodness, you know?

Thanks for reminding me that Ar tonelico has some uncomfortable stuff in it. I remember seeing a video of one sequence a long time back and I couldn't quite remember if it was Atelier Iris or Ar tonelico (and even then, which game). Picked up both PS2 games a few months ago and I'm looking forward to giving them the ol' college try via PCSX2. With headphones.
6th-Jul-2012 11:44 pm (UTC)
no one ever really seems to care about the games that portray males as gay strippers with swords

What's the problem with males being portrayed as gay strippers with swords?

If most female characters were strong characters that empowered female gamers then the use of women as eye candy wouldn't be such a big deal.

As for the lack of positive points, actually there's been a lot of positive points raised by feminists. I've placed links to articles about that in two other comments but because they include links to external websites those comments will remain marked as spam until Gel marks them otherwise. Hopefully he'll do so soon. :)
7th-Jul-2012 01:24 am (UTC)
On it and checking them out. Glad SOMEONE found some!

As for Ar Tonelico? Yeah it's a game where you MUST date these organic robots and make them love you to increase their power and ALL they do is sing in the back row and you have to protect them...and any HUMAN females are off limits. So no red haired fighting chainsaw girl for you. The third game is slightly more tolerable because it's sillier, but in it you have to convince the girls to strip for you because the more skin they show the more power they generate. Also you can get DLC personality chips for one of the girls. Yeah...

The game was also a shoddily made mess with tons of loading pauses. I nearly swore off GUST games altogether after THAT mess, but then I tried Mana Khemia and all was forgiven.

Also as for "sexualized" males in videogames? Most of the time it's closer to "idealized" and admittedly game girls are often idealized as well...just idealized for men.

BUT there ARE actually sexualized men somewhat. Best examples are Vaan (FFXII) and Raiden (MGS). Vaan was put in the game because focus group tests show girls don't want to play as older dudes (Basch, the actual main character) and girls are one of the primary target audiences for Final Fantasy. Yes, Final Fantasy MUST have a pretty boy protagonist. It's actually a REQUIREMENT now. Raiden was similar. He actually came from asking girls what it would take to get them to play Metal Gear. Again, they don't wanna play an old dude.

Know what game REALLY gets equal oppritunity sexualization right? KOF. Complain all you want about Mai's boobs, we got tons of effeminate men in leather! Not to mention fucking Ash "Freckles" Crimson! You want the male equivalent of Mai Shiranui? How about Ash. Freckles, that FUCKING HAIR and how he twirls it coyly, the painted finger nails, THE FRECKLES, the TIGHT RED LEATHER, and the fact that he's evil? Girls love Draco in Leather Pants! AND HE'S IN LEATHER PANTS!!!

And you know what? I APPROVE. I approve the FUCK out of this! I want MORE of this! (Helps than I like Vaan as a character) Because, really, everyone should get their kooky fantasies.
6th-Jul-2012 10:24 pm (UTC)

Tee hee!
7th-Jul-2012 12:25 am (UTC)
Most disappointing bunnysuit shots ever. Still not quite a fan of the DOA5 models and where the fuck are their tails?!
6th-Jul-2012 11:36 pm (UTC)
First of all, to any Feminists out there, PRAISE SOMETHING! Find SOME kind of positive example!

I've found several links to places where feminists have already done that...

Samus (Metroid), Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark), Sheik (Zelda's alter-ego), Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Ada Wong (Resident Evil Series), Aya Brea (Parasite Eve), Jade (Beyond Good and Evil), Heather (Silent Hill). (In the comments they even note that they don't dwell on Lara Croft because they wanted to write a more positive piece. They are specifically AVOIDING being negative in this article.)

This article specifically looks at Samus and while it has mixed views it comes down pretty positive at the end.

This one praises the character of 2nd Lieutenant Mira in "Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine"

Admittedly the Feminist Frequency upcoming series seems to be mentioned in most google links on the subject, but the plan is for that series to spend time on positive female characters, not just negative ones. Apparently there was some pretty harsh harassment, including people altering her wikipedia page and inserting links to pornography sites.

...and if I hear ONE MORE PERSON bring up Lollipop Chainsaw as being so horribly sexist I'm gonna punch them in the jaw.

Um.... why's that exactly? (From what I've heard, I'm presuming the sexism is supposed to be justified by "oh it's so ironic". That excuse can feel just a leeetle bit lame, y'know?)

Also, can I just say that I am HORRIBLY offended by the growing frequency of the term "man with boobs"? The idea being that if a female character doesn't do something that makes her distinctly feminine, she's just a model swapped dude? Because, really, you're telling me that making a female character that is COMPLETELY EQUAL TO HER MALE COUNTERPARTS IN EVERY WAY is somehow sexist?!

If we look at films and tv rather than games for a moment (where characters are more often expected to speak and emote), there's a trend of having female characters who are still the same eye candy as always but they can occasionally fight. What's particularly annoying about this trend is that they often end up having to be rescued by the male protagonist anyway. Meanwhile, a female character like Queen Elizabeth II from "The Queen" is actually a stronger character than any of these WITHOUT needing to kick anyone's ass.

If you decide to make your central character female rather than male so that she can be pleasing eye candy for male gamers, that is somewhat problematic. The thing that makes Samus such a good example is that she isn't female for the benefit of the gamer. She just IS female. That makes it much less questionable whether she holds the same status as a male controllable character. If it's her journey you are following and she is not being undermined by other figures in the game (so yeah, we're ignoring "Other M" here), then she is a strong female character. It can't be argued that she's just a male character made-female-so-male-heterosexual-gamers-have-some-nice-eye-candy because her armour looks just like a male character's outfit.

On the new Tomb Raider game, the problem is not really the game itself. The big PR problem is because they tried to justify Lara Croft being raped by saying "the player just wants to protect her". Regardless of how the game plays, that press release was not going to endear anyone. People don't normally need to see male characters as rape victims to want to protect them. The "lives" or "points" system is typically enough to make you want to keep your character alive and to follow the game. Saying that female characters are somehow unrelateable unless they are victims is seriously dodgy and it's that message, not the game itself, that has caused all the bad publicity.
7th-Jul-2012 01:42 am (UTC)
Yeah we are reading some VERY different sets of articles here. Shoot I've seen some say that using violence at all means your character doesn't count as a woman. I'll...try to respond more later. Melting.

It also reinforces that I need to inform the damn world about all the female characters they DON'T know.

As for Lollipop Chainsaw? Most of the people criticizing it never played the game. First of all it's a COMEDY so yeah they play up the bubbly cheerleader stereotype. Shoot the game opens by actively making male players uncomfortable and feeling like an episode of iCarly or something. It's the juxtaposition of her bubbly cheerleader nature with badass zombie killing that is the basis of the game. When you look past that though, Juliette is only sexualized in the sense that she's a cheerleader (or the unlockable outfits) and does come off as shockingly competent and awesome. I'm not gonna call her the ideal female character, but she's FAR from bad.
6th-Jul-2012 11:40 pm (UTC)
Another example of feminists praising positive female characters is this rather neat list:
7th-Jul-2012 10:26 am (UTC)
And now, for something completely different.

Caught wind of this post from a friend, and it made me curious to see how it played out. Though I knew that sexism was a topic you rarely (if ever, really) dropped the ball on. Likewise, this topic means a lot to me, too, so I had to weigh in.

This was a good post, really. The kind of thing I used to enjoy seeing from you. You make one minor mistake... And point out a major one, without knowing it.

The minor mistake is assuming you're unqualified because you enjoy Rumble Roses, Dead or Alive, Onichupacabra, whatever. Sexism is a complicated issue, but at least to my eye, It'd only be sexist if you held those up as some kind of gold standard that real women must adhere to. Apprecaiting aestetics is not, in and of itself, a sexist action.Frankly, your willingness to say "Look, I might not know what the fuck I'm talking about" makes you more qualified than a lot of the people weighing in right now, many of whom are just coming out of the woodwork. Sharks, smelling blood in the water. You at least have some stock in the issue...

The major mistake is the whole "man with boobs" rant: That, and associated points, assume that men "act a certain way" so therefore, a woman who "acts a certain way" is not a woman, but is a man. Now, see, I KNEW there was a word for assuming someone acts or MUST act a certain way due to their gender... Now... What was it...?

Oh right.

It was sexism. Take care battling monsters...

"Accentuate the positive" may be a little naieve, but doing away with negative tropes won't fix the issue of sexism. Other tropes will be used. Other means. It won't stop through brute force effort.

Oh and the whole Trops vs Women in Video Games? Yeah, two of the proposed episodes are "Ms. Male Character" and "Man With Boobs."

This is whatch'y'all spent a buck fifty large on. Hope yer all happy.

(PS Oh and I've unblocked you on AIM. I'd understand if you didn't care, though.)

(PPS Alyssa Dragoon is not sexist. She is awesome.)
7th-Jul-2012 10:34 pm (UTC)
(BULLSHIT I don't care! I've been thinking "Boy I sure do wish UtP was here right now, I'd love to hear his opinion on this!" for months XD)

Yeah well aware that two of the episodes are Mrs. Male Character and Man with Boobs which is part of what has me so riled up. It's actually two sexist issues in one if you look at it...I didn't go into proper detail on that one did I? *checks* Yeah the issue is both the fact that it's enforcing gender roles and saying "if a female does something masculine she doesn't count" as well as assuming that male is the default. Male characters don't have to do anything to prove they're male, but female characters do? Better still, some folks, including Anita, list "violence" as a male trait so if a female character uses violence she doesn't count. Hooboy this is a headache...

I do stand by my "not qualified" statement though but indeed it's not QUITE because I like Rumble Roses but rather that I'm male. If the question is what don't women like and what makes women uncomfortable there's no way a male can honestly know as...well...they didn't grow up as a woman and don't know their exact feelings. This applies to EVERY man in this discussion though as it is an irritatingly male dominated one and people on both sides are being idiots. All I can do is provide a man's point of view in this discussion and we have plenty of that.


...and yet I'm still considering doing a supplementary episode on this! XD (Primary episode would JUST be a happy list of female characters from the pre-32-bit eras with NO opinions on them, JUST observations) But basically if I did it would be a more refined version of this post: "*I* have no room to talk, *YOU* have no room to talk, you can't please everybody, everyone needs to broaden their scope, and it seems to me the games themselves aren't the problem but rather the community" would be a very brief undetailed summary. Workin' on the community part.
8th-Jul-2012 09:38 pm (UTC)
Ah, no mention of Asha, from the 1st time officially released in English Monster World IV?
27th-Jul-2012 02:59 am (UTC)
XD There's a LOT of female characters when you really look but trust me I am aware of her...and did purchase the Monster World Collection entirely because of that.
22nd-Jul-2012 07:14 am (UTC)
I don't know what positive I can contribute, as I've had similar experiences to you. As fatpie42 shows, you can find some positive articles or sites online, but the more negative ones are the ones that draw attention and spread like fire. (That being negative draws more attention isn't unique to this topic.)

And the all negative ones tend to present a no-win Catch-22 world. You can always find something to be negative about.

I've seen one person describe it as a "fundamentalist" attitude. Not the religion itself, but the general idea where a person believes they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong (and "part of the problem"), that the issue is completely black-and-white in line with their belief, so there is no possibility of discussion. (The person's argument was lost in the flood, with the only direct replies being to complain about his use of the word "fundamentalist" to describe the concept.)

For some women, the issue of sexism fits such a description, though. The derogatory word "mansplain" is pretty descriptive itself. To certain feminists, it is a word of their creation, one that can be used to counter men talking down to them. It is their defense against being typecast and dismissed for being women, that a woman's ideas are worthless because they are a woman's ideas. But look at the word itself. "Mansplain". It is a word used to dismiss what a man says because it was said by a man. (While defenders of the word will say that it can be applied to women as well as men, from my experience it is almost always applied against men. When used online against a woman, it is more likely because the person using it didn't realize the person they used it against was a woman. Against people believed to be women, there seems to be more of a willingness to at least pretend to discuss an issue, though it may take on a fairly patronizing or "You poor pitiful misguided person" tone.)

Yet I've seen women adamantly defend the word "mansplain." To question it is to attack women. To even imply that it is itself sexist is to make a mockery of sexism. To explain any disagreement with it is itself counted as mansplaining, and thus immediately ignored.

I've gone on a long tangent of talking about the term "mansplain"... I've kept rewriting what I wanted to say, and that is the only path that made it through constant deletions. It does, I think, represent a world view that exists, though. And that view, at least in my experience, tends to run close to a view that creates no-win situations.

It doesn't help that you've got people being complete ****s stirring the other side. One side has vocal people who will not change their mind. The other side has vocal people who act as if they have no mind. And any chance of any real discussion is lost at every level, because it devolves into attackers and attacked and white knights running blindly to the defense. Any attempt at real discussion is lost in the flood. One side feels persecuted, while the other side wants to persecute. Any middle ground arguments or statements by men or women are either twisted or ignored in the flood.

Hrm, the reply is still a mess that doesn't say what I want to say, but I've been mulling over it for at least an hour and I'm starting to get a headache from being tired, so I'll leave it as is.
27th-Jul-2012 03:24 am (UTC)
Right well I'm glad you replied anyway. I figured if anyone else had an opinion and stake in this it would be you and it's good to see someone reaffirming my suspicions.

This post is basically a "rough draft" of an episode I want to do on the subject because the nature of the argument really bothers me. At the same time it is a TOUCHY AS FUCK subject! Apparently Pixelphile lost a friend because of the Bayonetta podcast, for example. So I'm trying to be EXTRA careful with what I say. Oh yes, feathers will be ruffled but I wanna be sure that no one who isn't a complete prick doesn't come away hating me. Tried to do the episode once already but somehow I went on for over an hour when the PS3 ran out of memory XD Then someone said they were sending me a higher quality camera so I've decided to wait for that. Try and make the presentation real nice.

Now I'm torn in deciding how to do the episode. On one hand I DID find a way to summarize it. JUST focusing on the intensely absurd and inherently sexist nature of the "Man with Boobs" argument would actually be enough, but then a friend of mine handed me a fucking gold mine on a silver platter: GameSpot's review of Atelier Meruru, a game I was GOING to hold up as an example of an overlooked female-centric game, and GameSpot threw a fucking FIT because it was SO offended by it's portrayal of women! XD So, short or long...hmm...
28th-Jul-2012 06:21 am (UTC)
I would have replied earlier, but...

I first saw it when I didn't have time to make a response. Then I got busy and I forgot about it. It had scrolled off my friends page before I'd looked again.
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